Building Kindermusik

Building Kindermusik with Jacque Negus

[00:00:00] What age were you when you started learning music? High school choir? Middle school band? What about piano lessons at age eight? Or for some folks even earlier, like two or three years old or even earlier. How early does early childhood music education go?

Welcome to Zeitgeist Radio where we learn about musical scenes from people who are in them.

I'm Morgan Roe, and today I'm speaking with a retired early childhood music educator who not only ran a successful program, but she ran the kind of program I grew up on. This episode was really exciting to me to interview as an adult, someone who built the pieces of the program I started with. And there's definitely some reminiscing involved, and if you watch this on YouTube or Spotify video, you can see an unboxing of my old music bag.

Fun times. If [00:01:00] you love this, be sure to subscribe.

Morgan: My guest today is Jacque Nagus, a retired early childhood music instructor, specifically Kindermusik. And Jacque, welcome to Zeitgeist Radio.

Jacque: Thank you very much. Glad to be here.

Morgan: And I, I showed you a little before, but I'm gonna show you, um, for those of you, few of you who watch on YouTube or, or a video, we're gonna talk about kinder music today, and I have my. Kinder music bag. You can see it's well worn. Um, does this look familiar?

Jacque: And, and I can't believe you still have that. That was a while ago.

Morgan: and inside. I just wanna show you, do you know what's in this box?

Jacque: I.

Morgan: We'll get to it. People. I feel like we're doing an unboxing video. this.

Jacque: And you've got your cards, yes. Mm-hmm. And your strings and your dots to make the staff

Morgan: [00:02:00] Oh, yep. And

Jacque: and your folder.

Morgan: we got my folder. So, um, and I actually have my drum out in the other room. I should have grabbed it. um, very excited to talk with you 'cause we'll get into my history with kinder music. But first, uh, we're here to talk with you. So can you, um, give us a little background?

Jacque, who are you musically?

Jacque: Um, sure. And thank you again for inviting me.

Morgan: inviting

Jacque: Um, I, uh, came from a family of, uh, I can't say musicians, but people who loved music. Um, I grew up in a rural area, so, uh.

Morgan: um,

Jacque: There wasn't a lot to do, but my grandmother was the resident piano teacher, and so everybody learned how to play piano. She was of the, uh, school of hit people's hands with the ruler if you played the wrong notes.

So you can tell how long ago, uh, that kind of thing would've been. [00:03:00] But, um, I. I learned to play the piano, and also she taught everyone to sight sing from the hymnal from the church. And so music was just a, a very, very prominent and important part of my childhood. However, when I went to college, um, I was a nursing major, but I seemed to not be able to stay out of the music building.

And I kept taking classes and. The choir the first semester. And, um, and so, uh, the following year then I changed to music education. I was not positive that that's really what I wanted to do. I love to sing. I love to perform. Didn't know if I really wanted to teach, but, uh, like so many people in my age range, once you got out of college.

Um, you had student loans to pay. So I got a job, uh, right out of college, uh, teaching general music and choir to grade seven, eight, and nine. [00:04:00] Uh, and it was a, a rude awakening,

Morgan: Yeah.

Jacque: uh, me just say that in, in one class I met opposite PE and I had 50, 55. Oh. 57th grade boys all in one class,

Morgan: Oh my

Jacque: it didn't take me long to kick chairs and throw erasers.

So I learned on the job. Um, but I loved that job and I found out right away that, yes, being a music teacher is really what I wanted to do. So, so that really was the start. Um, in terms of kinder music, um, and early childhood music. That came out of, um, uh, trying to find something for my own children. So when my oldest son was still little, 18 months or so, I took him to a music and movement program. We lived in a north northwest suburbs of [00:05:00] Chicago and, um, and it was primarily orff based and, uh, and it was fun. And he liked it. Um, my husband's a musician, a professional musician, so we had a lot of music in our house and um, but I came away from that thinking there's just got to be more.

Uh, I that I liked that, but I don't know. So I started, um, just researching and trying to find a music program for little ones that would really serve what I felt was the best pros, pestle scenario. Um, I found online Kingdom of Music, or just by reading and talking with people. There was one program in Chicago, one in Chicago.

Morgan: in all of Chicago,

Jacque: all of Chicago,

Morgan: wow.

Jacque: uh, about an hour from me. So I went to visit this lady who was teaching it, and I was absolutely hooked. Um, so it wasn't long that summer there was a teacher training [00:06:00] class being offered in Princeton, New Jersey with which is where my in-laws happened to live. Um, and so I went and took the teacher training class.

Um, and I think that, um, you mentioned that you. Uh, might want to know about my beginning with kinder music and how that started, and that was really it. .

Morgan: I'd love to. Let's really quick take a second and, um, can you talk, 'cause you mentioned Orff before, can you, can you just share really quickly who that is? Carl

Jacque: Yes, Carl Orff was a music educator and he, um, his kind of claim to fame and Orff is still very present in nearly every music education program. Um, it's about music and movement. Um, so, uh, anything that happened with teaching of the music happened to be with, uh, the movement. There's a set of orff instruments that came from his program as well.

Um, [00:07:00] basically setting up. Um, Bard Instruments, uh, so that you could change, uh, pentatonic scale. You could change to different scales with the bars, um, drums, that type of thing. Um, and really it it's primary and basic in, in all of music education programs for children.

Morgan: Yeah. And for those, uh, those musicians who. May know it's, this is the same Carl Orff who, uh, of Carmina Bana fame,

Jacque: Yes.

Morgan: which many people are, are at least aware of the the oh four tuna. Go look it up. If you don't know it, you'll find that you know it. So a composer as well. But going back to kinder music. So you went to Princeton, New Jersey. Um. What was it there that kind of captured you to where you were like, I want to do this, like really do this?

Jacque: Um,

Morgan: Um,

Jacque: the woman who actually created kinder music, um, was Dr. Lorna Hega. [00:08:00] Um, now kinder music is not going to tell you that, so I,

Morgan: interesting.

Jacque: you want, may want to be careful and, uh.

Morgan: Okay.

Jacque: you present it. Um, Lorna Haga was the teacher trainer for all of kinder music at that point in time. And I can tell you it was like almost like a religious experience.

I, I hate to be so dramatic about it, but as I sat and listened to her talk, and truthfully, this was her sitting under a beautiful tree and all of us sitting on the ground in front of her grounded. We with our shoes off, and she talked to us about the importance of what we did with our children between the ages of birth and five, and how that was such an instrumental time to be teaching music.

Because, uh, [00:09:00] development, developmentally speaking, um, there was so much that we could have them experience. And it is all about experience, not teaching, but experience, um, through the, those, um, little bodies that can sway and move and, and sing in their own way. Um, and about how important just for, um, their lives.

Uh, for the lives of others around them as they grew and, uh, as they grew up. Um, but, but it made so much sense to me when I looked at my own child and. Saw how quickly he could learn things and how excited he was about life. And you know, how a leaf blowing around could just be the most exciting thing in the entire world.

And, and so, because I had my own child right at that point in time and it was such, and I was an older mother, so this was really exciting to me. Um. And, and I, all of all of life [00:10:00] changed for me truthfully. It, it changed in the way that I parented. It changed in the way that I dealt with other people. It was all about kindness and openness and, uh, ex exploration, um, and seeing things in a different way.

Uh, looking at someone else's way of looking at, at anything. Really, um, and just being mesmerized by it and open to it and celebratory of it. Um, so that was a life changing experience for me, and I came home knowing that this is really what I, I wanted to do. Uh, so I, I did, I set up a program

Morgan: And then there were two

Jacque: and then there were two, and Jessica came along and I just think of her as being in her little carrier over in the, in the corner. Pulling her out to balance it. When it was time, there was no, uh, beginnings or, uh, there was no program for babies at that time. The program started [00:11:00] with, uh, I think it was two, two year olds up through, we had Young Child then though the red bag that you have.

Um, I started teaching that right away because that was, uh, an instrumental part of that program too, you know.

Morgan: Yeah. So side note, uh, my mom plays French horn. I told you this earlier, but for my audience, um. So during Peter, she was Peter and the wolf. She was always the wolf.

Jacque: Yes,

Morgan: I have very early memories of my mom being in the room and it was so cool 'cause it was my mom, you know? I

Jacque: right.

Morgan: special. But I honestly, I never knew a time without kinder music because my mom was the wolf before I was born.

So the time I was in the program, she'd already, you know, she'd already been doing it for several years.

Jacque: Oh,

Morgan: it's,

Jacque: wonderful.

Morgan: Um, so when you were, um, let's talk about, so you decided to become a [00:12:00] teacher. You helped create some of the materials that are used in the curriculum. Um, can

Jacque: Yes.

Morgan: about that? What are those materials?

Jacque: Um, yes, actually in a couple of different ways. We were involved in that. Um, when I mentioned that, uh, Dr. Hega, uh, was the creator, um, unfortunately there was a separation of ways between Dan Pratt who was the other person involved in the creation of kinder music. Um, and he was more the business side of it.

Um, and. I have no idea what the problem was, but they could not see eye to eye and so they parted ways. Um, and, uh. So at that point in time, um, Lorna went off and started another program, which is still going today called Music Garden. Um, another very, very wonderful early childhood music program. Um, all kind of based on the, the same thing.

But, um, when that [00:13:00] happened, um, of course. Lorna left and she had been creating curriculum and Howard Bear, who had been the person doing all the music, um, for the program, went with Lorna. Um, and so new people needed to kind of come in and, and take the place and, uh, I ended up being involved in doing teacher training at that point in time.

Um, so I traveled around the country in the summertime and, and taught kinder music teacher training classes. And because of that also did some of the Dr. Um. Development of curriculum more so from an underside place. You're not going to find, well, you'll find my name on a few things, but mostly I ghost write, wrote, um, for the program.

And, uh, Linda Swearers was another person who was very instrumental in writing at that point in time. And, um. She and I worked together a lot. But then the other thing [00:14:00] that is more, much more prominent and, and this is something that you would see from our household, uh, is that Howard Bearer, who was the composer, the arranger, um, absolutely stellar, amazing music for children in that he could write a musical line.

And then weave around it, counter melodies that were so simplistic, but beautiful and clear. And for, um. Uh, the, the children could hear that they knew the sound of that french horn, the sound of that oboe, um, and, and could hear it in the way that he created melodies. Well, my husband is also a, a composer, arranger, producer.

Um, and we're kind of like, well. What do you think? Can you do this? And he kind of studied what Howard was doing and we realized that Howard was the master of this. Um, but [00:15:00] John began doing it and, and he ended up creating some absolutely wonderful music for kinder music. So we did that in our, we, we had a studio at home.

He, uh, he produced more than seven 70 CDs, over 700 tracks of music. For killer music and nearly anything that you would find, um.

They're still using some of them. Uh, so nearly anything that you would find under the name of our time or beginnings, um, village. Uh, I think they've changed the names of some things now, but I'm pretty sure they're still using the same tracks. Uh, and we did that for a very, very long time. Many years we were involved in that.

And you, you can hear every one of us on the tracks, John and I, all three kids. You, you can hear Jessica as a young girl singing on those. On those tracks. [00:16:00] And, uh, and we had, uh, because of John's business, he, uh, sang and played with the best, the best people in Chicago who were doing recording, doing jingles.

Um, so we were able to incorporate all of those people very high level musicians into the recordings that we did for them.

Morgan: That's amazing. So for my, for audience, my audience who may not know, can you talk about the structure when we are talking about recordings? does that mean in the classroom? And can you talk also briefly about the different kind of levels of, of kinder music starting? Like what, we probably should have started with this, but

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: you know, what are those very early ones?

And then as you get older.

Jacque: Um, yes, and you know, I, I have to be honest, I tried to look that up a little bit before. Um. Speaking with you today. Uh, but they have changed, I believe, the names of things, but I think that the [00:17:00] levels remain the same. Um, so there was a program for. Zero can bring your newborn baby as soon as you feel like that baby can come out with the other people, um, and move that baby through space and sing.

Um, and that would go up to about maybe one, one and a half walkers just, just walking. And then there's a next level that's, um. Um, in walkers up through maybe two, two and a half, a third level then would be three year olds up through four year olds. And none of this was ever, um, it's, it was never, uh, set on age.

Uh, it's all developmental. Um, so, you know, if a teacher said, you know, I think a child's ready to blah, blah, um. And then of course, young child, the four through six year olds was the oldest group. The first two levels, uh, required a parent, parent involvement, hopefully the, the mom [00:18:00] or dad, but a grandma or grandpa or a caregiver.

Um, and then when they get to be three to four, then they would come by themselves and obviously up in this, the last level by themselves. It, it was very important, um, in the kinder music realm for parents to understand that, that kinder music teachers believe that the parent is the best teacher. Uh, and that we are just there to facilitate music making for you to take home and do with your child during the week.

You come to kinder music once a week, but the rest of the time you are the music maker with your child, and so those home CDs. Were meant to, uh, be played at home for the parent, mom, dad, grandma, whomever, to sing at home and keep the child involved in it all the time, all week long. And I know even my grandchildren today, uh, they, they want, they wanna hear the kinder music song.

They wanna hear the [00:19:00] tape, and they're, they're old now at this point in time.

Morgan: I know, I'm thinking it was a cassette tape for me, not a cd.

Jacque: You're right. We started off with a cassette for sure. That's exactly right. But all of those home packages, that was one of the reasons when I, I have to say that when I got started in the nineties, um, it happened to be a period of time where many moms were staying home to raise kids. Um, it isn't so much like that now, and it hasn't been for quite some time.

But, um, moms were home. Um, moms were home, but families were transient. And so a lot of these young moms did not have a grandma or a great grandma to help with raising that child like we did, you know, a hundred years ago. And so kinna music became a place then for young moms to come in. And not only find camaraderie and friends, just friends, uh, [00:20:00] within this program, but learning also all the things that, uh, kid music teachers are taught in their teacher training about child development, about what happens now.

And yes, if Johnny's racing around the room when he's three, don't worry about that. He's fine. Uh, maybe little Mary is sitting over here quietly in her mommy's lap, but that's fine too. And all of the things that parents need to. Know about to make them comfortable. You know, the babies don't come with a instruction fit, and unless you've had some experience yourself, I never babysat, even though we had a large family.

I don't know why I didn't, but boy, I hated it when my mother left me, um, to raise this kid. Uh, my husband was gone a lot and so I was there. Ken was, gave me that opportunity then to connect with, with other parents, .

Morgan: I think that's actually really important. Um, I shared with you again

Jacque: [00:21:00] Mm-hmm.

Morgan: just had a baby and it is. I I related to every single sentence you said about it being a transformative, I'm also kind of an older mom. this is my first , you know, I, I see things different. I'm seeing

Jacque: Yeah.

Morgan: now, and I do remember. In kinder music, my mom would share with me, um, what developmentally

Jacque: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Morgan: I remember. Learning like the shapes with the dots and you trace

Jacque: Yep.

Morgan: your voice, you know, and how that's your voice to go up and down and being able

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: it. So I, I, I think that's really interesting and I, I think kids absorb it at all

Jacque: So much more

Morgan: know,

Jacque: than you would ever think.

Morgan: it's

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

.

And sitting in a kinder music class, even though you may not even realize it, that child is going through a process of, of, uh, cognitive, uh, uh. [00:22:00] Sequences, uh, when we're moving them, especially to a steady beat. Um, that's developing those neural passage ways that we always talk about and, um, stimulating the vestibular system, uh, in so many different ways to, to help them learn and grow.

And, and, and mostly for me, in a kinder music class, it was all about the joy. Of community, of, of music, of learning and being together and loving those little ones. Uh, and, and I think one of the most important times for me was when a, a group of, uh, in a class of parents would get comfortable enough that somebody else's child would run to somebody else's lap.

And that was just the best, you know, that everybody could feel was, was so free. To, uh, just really experience it. Parents and children alike?

Morgan: , Can you share some of these activities? Like what, [00:23:00] what types of activities were at least in your mind, kind of stand out as

Jacque: Yes. Of co of course that each level is different because it's, uh, based on developmental activities, but some things we're standard, uh, and that would be. A hello song to to begin with, that was also the Goodbye song. So there would be recall for the child listening to the pitches and even though we're saying, um.

Sing, hello, hello, uh, and goodbye. Goodbye. But it's still the same melody, uh, and um, rhythm that they're hearing each time. Also, within that hello and goodbye song, particularly the Hello Song, there would be an opportunity to greet. Each child individually, every time, every time they come to class. It wasn't just, oh yeah, well, we're all here now.

We're gonna go do this. No. The teacher had an opportunity to look up one sweet little face and say, [00:24:00] would you like to wave to this Jacque today? Oh, let's wave. Let's wave. Hello? Hello. Let. And go on from that. Um, and then in between every class in some form, uh, and again, different because of the developmental levels, but, um, there would be purposeful movement, uh, not just running, um, but, but purposeful, uh, um, active listening.

And that was something that was very important to me. Um. Uh, I had a teacher who was fabulous. She actually ended up taking my program over when I retired from it. But she would take something in her bag and say, oh, I have something in here, and she'd pull out something, a drum, uh, um, a bar, a, a melodic bar, a triangle, something, but like it was, oh, [00:25:00] the most wonderful.

And then. Ding. And the children were mesmerized by that. Uh, I kind of stole that from her too. And, and, but that active of listening is so important. I, you know, our children today are bombarded with noise. And, um, how I wish that every kid would have an opportunity to take kinder music or, or another program like that, that teaches them to just focus in on just one beautiful sound.

It doesn't happen very much these days. Uh, let's see. Any

Morgan: It's crazy to me as you're talking, the memories that are coming back to me that I have completely forgotten. I remember like listening to the triangle, like until it

Jacque: Yes?

Morgan: away as it got, can you still hear it? Can you still

Jacque: Yeah. Oh,

Morgan: you still hear it?

Jacque: absolutely.

Morgan: And then like wiggling. When you Oh, it's all gone.

You can't hear it [00:26:00] anymore.

Jacque: Oh

Morgan: I had

Jacque: yeah, it, it's in your bones. It's there.

Morgan: Yeah.

Jacque: be, um, especially for the little ones of reading. I don't think we had that in Young Child, the older one, but a little book, uh uh, so that there would be a time where they would come, um, to read, , uh, for the littlest ones, there was always a quiet time. , And that would be when we would put on a piece of music that would be restful and that would hopefully help the moms and dads to be able to use that piece of music as, uh, a rest time at home. Um, actually any of the music then would be like, if there was a cleanup time and, and there would be a time for to put things away.

Let's put,

Morgan: I know that

Jacque: let's put away. Yeah. And, and so, uh, that, that could be used at home as well. E everything in kinder music was purpose, purposeful, uh, you know, it [00:27:00] took a lot from the Montessori concept, a prepared environment. Um, it's one of the reasons why kinder music teachers have a pretty hard job because you need to have it set up and prepared for the children when they walk in the room, no matter how many classes you've got back to back.

Um, but it needs to feel like just. Fun and we are playing, uh, they should never feel like anything is structured at all. Mm-hmm. So, um, e everything is prepared for them in advance, and yet there's a lot of leeway and where they go follow the child as the battle cry of kinder music. Follow the child.

There's a lot of leeway in your lesson plan during teacher training classes. I would, uh, tell people plan, of course. Well, this is true in any teacher training, not just kinder music, but plan a lot more than you think you're going to need. Um, and then that way, if you need to take a left [00:28:00] turn, you've still got lots of activities that can follow that left turn that you just took in order to follow the child.

Morgan: I'm curious some examples. We, you gave an excellent example of

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: active listening. Um, what about the purposeful mu movement?

Jacque: That would be, for instance, high and low and the piece of music would be jump up. Three and a four and it would just keep going from that. And so that we would learn, um, when the music goes up, you go up, when the music goes down, you go down. Uh, if the music says that would be one thing, take the scarfs and if the music says.

It's just flowing and beautiful and we're butterflies now and that type of thing. But when the music changes, oh, then we're bunny rabbits and we hop, hop, hop, hop, hop. So it helps the child then learn to understand that the music is used in different ways. Uh, [00:29:00] and you know, one of the things I used to say all the time, um, to parents, but you, when you realize that music is a part of everyone's life, whether you think it is or not, it is.

Um, when something, when a disaster strikes in this country, what do we do? We all get together and we. Sing the national anthem, or when there's a funeral, um, there's music being played somehow, or when there's a wedding, there's music being played, even if it's music outside and the Berger singing, I, you know, there, there's music in, in everybody's life.

And when the children learn to incorporate all of these different movements. With the different types of music, they can experience it, um, intrinsically in from the inside viscerally. They, they, they feel it. They don't just hear it, they don't just sing it. They feel it and they feel all different types of music.

Um, depending on, on what kind it is and what, what the tempo is, what the [00:30:00] timur is on and on.

I did some digging into Lorna Hege after Jacque recommended I be careful in how I present this. She is known as a co-founder of Kinder Music, so I don't think it's unreasonable to deduce that she had a major impact on the program. There's a book about her called A Song From the Heart,

the pedagogical philosophy of Lona Luga, PhD. She went on to found Music Garden, another early childhood music program, as Jacque stated, but there are others too. Maybe you've heard of some, . Suzuki is super common with string instruments, the Kadi method music together.

There are several, so if you're interested in kinder music and they don't have a class near you, there are some other options for you to check out. I did notice that kinder music has a virtual class available as well. If you're enjoying this conversation, please take a moment to like Zeitgeist Radio [00:31:00] on Facebook or Instagram, or if you're really loving it, you can sign up for my newsletter on my website@zeitgeistacademy.com slash radio.

I send out content about cool things I learned from my guests. And of course, from this episode, I'll be sending out a newsletter on early childhood music programs. Now let's get back to Jacque.

Morgan: . Let's, let's talk about some of the older kids stuff. Um,

Jacque: Well, I love that you have your,

Morgan: I'm gonna pull

Jacque: that you have your,

Morgan: little, can you tell me about this

Jacque: oh, the black and spiel.

That was our way to teach the scale. Um, and so, uh, children would learn about now up and down as they're older developmentally, they're older and up and down for us on a keyboard or, or a glockenspiel, uh, and an instrument like that. Up is to the right down is to the left.

Um, and then able to, uh, keep a steady beat if you want, on the [00:32:00] fifth. We would be able to do that. We'd be able to take bars off to make a pentatonic scale. And then, you know, we be able to create, uh, and everything sounds good because it's pentatonic. Um, and use it also, uh, just to score a story. Um, something might be going on and you'd use the black and spiel to play Ooh, raindrops and, and, uh, and that type of thing.

But basically it was to teach theory. The black and spiel was used to teach theory. Yes,

Morgan: My teacher had, um, xylophones as well as that standard in every kinder music classroom. And most of the time the bars were mostly off. There were like two bars or maybe three, or you'd have, what, two, two kids to a

Jacque: Yes

Well, and that, that is a fortunate teacher if they have the orphan instruments, the bar instruments to use, because I, I, I was also fortunate to have those as well. But [00:33:00] that way you can set two kids to a, a xylophone, like an alto xylophone. And so you've got, uh, a place where everybody can learn how to bring the music up and out of the bar, um, and play, uh, play and sing.

Anything that just needed that drum, that fifth, um, which there's just, you know, there's a myriad of music that you can use that with. Uh, and of course kinder music again, um, well maybe I didn't say this before, but a lot of folk genre, uh, not just American folk, but folk music from all over the world really.

Uh, and so you could use the xylophones in that way, which is exciting for a child to be able to make music like that. And it sounds good. Kids know whether it's just hammering or whether it's actually making music. They know

Morgan: . And it's funny 'cause it's actually, the xylophone looks odd to me that it has all the bars on it. I think most of [00:34:00] the time they were off and it was really only maybe the

Jacque: Exactly.

Morgan: of the

Jacque: That's right.

Morgan: put the bars on,

Jacque: That's right. So you, so you know where to plunk.

Morgan: I have a memory of being mystified.

How my teacher knew which bars, 'cause she'd be changing the bars all around, you know, in class, which ones do you take off and

Jacque: Yeah.

Morgan: How do you know? Um, that's fun. I think the other key kinder music, um, thing is the

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: you

Jacque: Well, and that goes back to that steady beat that we use, uh, just immediately from the womb, you know, when we're doing music programs and, and keeping that, that the heartbeat steady beat that comes along and that the, the, the children learn to, um, react to the steady beat, just like they would pitch up and down.

Now, a steady beat means. Fast and slow. And so if you take your job and you go a little faster, and [00:35:00] by the way, running in kinder music means on your tiptoes.

What a neat one on your tiptoes. Otherwise you got Henry over there zipping around the room. But, um, but learning how to internalize them, uh, the different tempo. Uh, tempos that you can, uh, experience together just with nothing but that drum. No words. Just, just the drum.

Morgan: And was it, is it a traditional activity in kindy music to make your

Jacque: Oh,

Morgan: we had

Jacque: okay.

Morgan: day

Jacque: I never did that, but I love that.

Morgan: and the coffee cans and you, you decorate

Jacque: Oh.

Morgan: No. Oh, I might have to go show you my drum at some point, but yeah, we all, we made our drums and then we

Jacque: Yeah.

Morgan: home

Jacque: how fun. You know, I never did anything like that. Um,

Morgan: I guess.

Jacque: actually, I think the camp program, which was kind of right at the end of my tenure, did some things like that [00:36:00] because, and the reason being, um.

.

We had lessons every week and they built on upon each other. And so if you missed something, uh, in the lesson back here, then the next week, you know, you have your 12, 12 week program.

Um. You kind of had to stay on a schedule. So I love building a drum and how wonderful, but it probably would've put me behind the lessons. So I didn't, uh, I didn't, it, it's kinder music is not as creative for the teacher as it is for the child. Uh, because I know there were lots of things that I thought, oh, we could do this.

I have to say though, that in the way you can take care of that. Um, I always had these big things at the end of semesters. And that was the time where it was a y'all come kind of thing. And you know, I, I could have all sorts of parents had to come as well and um, but we would have [00:37:00] learning stations and um, that was the time where we might do something like that.

Never built a drum, but we did other things.

Morgan: Well, you just need a big old coffee can and some

Jacque: I.

Morgan: of rubber and some string, and then you've got a drum. I'd like to hear the same scenario from two points of view. So say, I'm, well, I am a mom I walk, I, I'm, I know music is good for the brain. I don't know much more than that. I walk into my first ever kinder music class. What do I see? Experience. Um, and then I'd like to hear the same thing from the teacher side, but first if you could like, the scene from a mom perspective or a parent

Jacque: I would hope that a mom could walk into a very welcoming space that has color, but not too much to overstimulate the child, but some color and some comfort. Um. [00:38:00] Maybe a pillow someplace so that if a mom needs to go sit with a child in the corner, then there's a pillow over there to sit. Um, you would find places for people to leave shoes or leave coats, um, to put them off to the side so that we could all gather and then there would be a gathering spot.

Um, now I did something that a lot of kinder music teachers. Really frowned upon, but it helped me. I, I made a path and my path would be either a big circle or oval, and that gave me an opportunity then to say. Would, would everybody come to my path? And, and in that way, uh, I found that parents could, could they, they know, they knew where to come.

They, they could come, they could see my cape on the floor and, you know, come to the blue path and just have a seat wherever you'd like to. So that made them comfortable to come in. Um, and then right away we would sing the Hello Song, which I spoke about before, um, and moving. [00:39:00] Um, not so quickly that it felt, would feel rushed, but moved from, uh, activity to activity to activity without stopping, without having a time where you go, oh no, what's she doing now?

Um, for instance, if you had to look down at your book, uh, for the lesson plan, game over, those had to be memorized. Um, so that you could move from one activity to another, and then the parent or the mom, in this case we're saying a mom came in, um, could very feel very comfortable about just moving from one thing to the next rocking.

Say the baby, your baby's going to kid music. Now we're rocking the baby. Now we're moving. Now we're up on our. Feet and we're moving the baby this way and that, um, now we have the baby laying out on the floor and we're doing a nice little tummy light, tummy rub. And now we're taking baby's legs up [00:40:00] and down and up and down and very per purposeful, but very calm, very soothing, very friendly.

Um, and most of all very joyful. And if you're doing it right, the mom. Feels like she's gone to have a massage at the end of the program, at the end of the lesson. Now, if you've got a fussy baby, I'm not gonna say that kinder music will take care of that. You know, sometimes

Have an off day, and that's just the way it goes.

Uh, but hopefully the music can, um, the child will at some point learn that this is now our calming time. This is our, this is our time. The other thing about kinder music, that was so. Well, not the other thing. There are many things, but it was so important to me that the program asked parents to come. This is not gonna drop your [00:41:00] child off.

This is very, look into your child, sweet,

Morgan: Yeah.

Jacque: face and have this time, even if it's only 30 or 45 minutes a week. This is your time. Just especially if you've got multiple kids. This is your time. Just, and I would have people say, oh, can I bring my other one? My answer was always no, you know, and I'm sorry, but no, um, I'd like to help you with that.

I know some kids who babysit, um, you know, I can, I can do that, can, the music kind of was kind of expensive. Um, but at that point in time, again, mom stayed home, but. Parents seem to have money. So the answer was always no, you cannot bring another child into the class. This is your time with just that one child.

Hard to get that. Um, yeah, I think joy and comfort would be what I would want for that mom to feel.

Morgan: now let's take that [00:42:00] same lesson like first day class. From a teacher perspective, what are some things that. You are looking at as a teacher, what have you done?

Jacque: The kinder music program is a prescribed lesson, but it has a lot of flexibility in it. Um, and I would say from the teacher's standpoint, you had. You've got to be extremely organized. You the preparation on that. I mentioned before, Montessori prepared environment. The kids don't know. It's all set up for them, but it is.

And um, I found that as I got busier and busier, I had a harder time remembering music. So I began to put. Posters up on the walls, and I found it helped my parents anyway, because if we were just learning a piece of music, then it was up on the walls. The words, I'm, I'm not a proponent of just giving people word sheets to sing.

I like notes, but at that [00:43:00] point in time, a lot of my parents weren't musicians anyway, so. You know, the, the word sheets did help and it helped me as well. Um, because like, as I said before, the teacher needs to be com continually moving, continually pulling the lesson into the next thing. There, there are no breaks in it.

Um, so the teacher needs to be sure that he or she has, uh, I don't know any men who work in the music teachers. I, I don't mean to be sexist there, but, um, I, I don't, um, but the teacher needs to be very prepared, uh, before that class ever begins. She's just, I think maybe once I came unprepared and actually I had nightmares about that, that I, that I hadn't prepared.

, And it was just because I was trying to take another teacher's class over who was ill. Um, I had seven teachers who worked for me. I, I had a very large kinder music program. Um, I think at one point in [00:44:00] time we had 500 children a week coming to our program.

Um, and the woman who actually, uh, bought it from me, the one that I was saying before was a wonderful teacher and also you can hear her on it. She was a beautiful singer. She's can hear her on our CDs. Um, I think, I think her high number was seven 50. She was one of the teachers who had a maestro program.

That's what theater music called them when they were, when that were, they were that size. But when you have that much going on. The person who is at the top of that really has to be aware. Uh, I didn't teach very many classes myself, but I needed to make sure that I knew every lesson in every class that we were teaching because I was always the one who needed to step in.

So from the teacher standpoint, um,

Morgan: Yeah.

Jacque: uh, and, and, okay, so that's the pedagogy part. But past that, the biggest [00:45:00] responsibility for the teacher is to exude that joy of music making to to present the fact that you love doing this. You, you just, you love doing this. This is not just a job. You don't make that much money anyway, but this is not just a, a job for you.

This is something that you love and you think it is so absolutely important and vital to a young child's life that you're just glad everybody's there, fair for them and for you both.

Morgan: That's, that's my teacher. I don't know if you know Angela Fond and Helena Montana, but she,

Yeah. Most joyful,

Jacque: Absolutely.

Morgan: .

When I picture her, I, you know, you have those early, early kind of

Jacque: Yep.

Morgan: where kind people are surrounded by

like a golden haze almost.

That was, that.

was Angie.

Jacque: I love that That's [00:46:00] wonderful that you had that experience. That's great.

 , stepping out a little bit, looking at early childhood music education, what are some of the key concepts?

Morgan: If you could encourage a parent to, participate with their child or to take their child to an early childhood, uh, music

class, what are some key things that

you

would share?

 of the type of program

Jacque: yes, because I have, uh, I've taken my grandkids to some wonderful programs at the libraries. Um, and it, I have to be honest, it, they always all depend on the teacher. Um, it if. If the teacher doesn't understand that a small child only has vocal cords that are this long, they'll sing.

The bear went over the mountain, the bear went over, and it's [00:47:00] like, and you've got these little ones who even if they wanted to sing, they can't possibly match pitch in that range.

And so I would say be careful of. Of looking for a person who does have some kind of music background, who understands that if you're going to take a music program, the person that you're is teaching the class does need to know something about the child voice. Um, and then also, um, that the person has some, some experience in understanding what it means to, uh, to do.

Um, movement that is purposeful, um, to, to do listening, um, musical listening, that is purposeful. Um, I guess what I'm saying is that the teacher needs to have some background and some instruction in music. Lots of people love kids and that's great. And okay, [00:48:00] so you can work with kids in a lot of different ways.

But if you are gonna teach music, if you're gonna say, I am now teaching a music program, I would, I would ask parents to be sure that you check. With who the teacher is, what background do they have? Um, many of, many kind music teachers were piano teachers first, but they had to take the training in order to be able to teach.

And during that training, then they were taught, uh, things that you really needed to know about a young child, a young child. Uh, demeanor. A young child's developmental aspects, a young child's voice, a young child's movement capabilities, you know, when do they skip, when do they learn to skip? Don't ask a child to skip when they're two.

Um, so that, that to me would be the most important thing. Check, check your teacher's background.

Morgan: Nice. [00:49:00] Um, all right, so I,

I have one last

question that I ask every guest

on this podcast.

There's a moment I've called a calling a zeitgeist moment where you connect with something like that spirit of the time that you're in. This can be connecting closely with like a, a here and now moment, or it can be a moment of intense connection to something in the past. Like if you are at an opera and suddenly you just feel

like super connected to opera.

But I think we've all experienced it. so I will ask you. is a, a zeitgeist moment that is either memorable or recent? And while you're thinking about that, I'll share mine with you. Actually, I'm gonna share two, one, one is

when I remember playing, performing, like you mentioned, the end of the year, uh, recital or showcase or whatever, I don't remember what she called it.

Performance. And I was in the older [00:50:00] program 'cause I remember playing the xylophones and there was this moment where I just connect like I got it that I was with. The entire, like the whole class, we were all beating as one. We were all in the same rhythm. And there was this just really special moment, um, where like, like I feel like I might have understood for the first time that, that we were all here playing for a separate entity that was the parents, um.

​[00:51:00] I think it was the first time literally in my life that I understood that I was with a group of students playing for the group of parents, like that separation, and I just remember it again, being a very golden time. Of, of, of us all just playing.

I don't know what we were playing, but it was just the beats .

Jacque: Mm-hmm.

Morgan: Um. But that was the first performance that I remember. I know I'd done more before that, but that was the first time it actually felt like a performance to me.

Hi Morgan here. Unfortunately, Jacque's internet got really choppy as she was sharing her zeitgeist moment. So I'll step in here for a minute. She shared that how she's conceptualizing a zeitgeist moment is all about connection and community. , One time when she first started teaching the baby class, it was something brand new.

And there was a child who had not really graduated out of that baby class yet, was probably about 18 months or so. She said, [00:52:00] very verbal. And mommy and daddy were both there and they were doing a song where they were sweeping her across the room and kind of passing her back and forth.

And in the middle of it, she said very loudly, I just love this. And everybody in the room was just crying. It was a moment, connection. Connection. Again, community music can connect you in ways that nothing else can. And yeah, of course her mommy and daddy were there and paying attention to her, but this also stems from using music to create that type of environment.

Jacque worries about the future of these programs and the kids too. She says the ages of zero to seven are so important, so formative and for both moms and kids, the community and the connection through music is everything. I certainly think we can all agree on that.

 Thanks for tuning in to this episode of Zeitgeist [00:53:00] Radio. And thanks to Jacque for joining me. Please follow me at Zeitgeist Academy on Facebook and Instagram. I also have a YouTube channel with the same handle, so if you wanna see my old kinder music bag, you can watch a video version of the podcast.

Don't hesitate to reach out with a zeitgeist moment of your own. I always love to hear from fellow music lovers. Thanks for listening.