**Morgan:** Who were the top three most influential people in your early life? If you were in music, I bet at least one of those was your music teacher. Welcome to zeitgeists radio, where we learn about musical subcultures from people in the scene. If you love this, be sure to subscribe. Today, I'm speaking with a high school choir teacher about the challenge and beauty of shaping lives, knowing that your influence may be lifelong.
My guest today is Rachel Landowski, a high school choir teacher in Western Washington.
Rachel, welcome to Zeitgeist Radio.
**Rachel:** Thank you, Morgan. I'm so excited to be here and excited to see you again.
**Morgan:** Yeah, this is so fun because Like we sang in high school together and now we're talking about high school choir together.
It's like a whole circle.
**Rachel:** When I feel like you have ventured off like that, you know, high school choir path into like a very Just like interesting, eclectic musical life. And I, I like think that's so cool. And then I just stayed like right in the niche where we met. So,
**Morgan:** well, I'm still in choir. Like that never changed.
/
I actually kind of had a moment at my, uh, college reunion. Cause like high school choir, college choir, immediately into like community. Like I still sing with a master, like the master around here. Like I just never stopped. Being in choir. Good. So good for you.
um, so I know you musically, but can you, for our listeners, can you describe kind of your, your background with music, your high school music teacher now in middle school, um, as I just learned before that, what is your personal journey with music to kind of like orient?
**Rachel:** Well, yeah, so, um, my mom is a musician and she was when I was a kid, a piano teacher, then for a while she taught middle school choir, which she did not love because it's hard. And she had a traveling youth choir in our hometown where we grew up together. Um, and so they, uh, and my dad is actually also a musician.
He together, they sing in our, in the symphony. And, um, You know, they met with him playing on a blanket at a kegger with his guitar, you know, and she, of course, wandered over and, you know, in the 60s, yeah, they're silly, um, you know, so their, their relationship is really based on singing and my brother sing and I sing and, um, I also grew up a pianist.
Um, so I. Started playing because there was tons of piano in my home. My mom was teaching piano. I started playing, I was playing with two hands by the time I was like four, you know, by ear. So I was just kind of a weirdo. Um, and so they started me in piano in second grade with this incredible teacher. Um, and I went with her until my junior year.
Um, I did a lot of competing. I was pretty serious and thought at one point I might become a piano performance major. I went to piano camp one summer. I remember
**Morgan:** being really impressed and kind of intimidated by you because I also played piano, but you were so much better than me. Oh, really? I don't I was just like, oh my God.
**Rachel:** I don't remember that. Um, I will say that my parents definitely incentivized it. Like, it was kind of like, Well, if you practice, you don't have to do the dishes, you know, was like, great. Um, and I loved it, you know, it was at that time so much a part of my identity. I, I just went to my 20 year reunion and chatted with some friends that I didn't know super well.
Um, well, one friend that I'm really close with, and then another friend that You know, it was just kind of in that other circle and that person was just like, Oh yeah, you were just the pianist, you know, that was my little identity. Yeah. Um, but in my junior year in high school, my piano teacher unexpectedly died in a, in an auto accident.
And that was the first tragedy of my young life. I hadn't lost a grandparent yet. Um. And I, it was, it was absolutely awful. And so that really changed the trajectory for me. I sort of switched my focus to singing and musical theater. I started performing with the community theater. And then, you know, that was that pivotal time, junior to senior year where I thought, okay, well, then, instead of doing piano performance, I'm going to do choir.
And so. I'm going to teach choir. And so I, um, I ended up at Washington state university because the university of Montana was pretty focused at the time on, um, performance and opera. They were kind of like a conservatory, which was just not what I wanted to do. Um, and I did not want to go to MSU. I just, I can't remember why I was just like, I'm not going to MSU, you know, in my 18 year old, like, Like brain.
And so I went to Washington state where I had met with the teachers and, you know, I could, it was a state college I could afford. It was the next one over from U of M, you know, you just sort of kept driving West and everybody was listening.
**Morgan:** Idaho doesn't count there.
**Rachel:** That's true. Well, I mean, there is a college in Idaho,
**Morgan:** but they didn't, they're much smaller.
Yeah, no. And if you're driving West, It's like 20 miles of Idaho. So yeah, it's like the panhandle does not have a geography wrong.
**Rachel:** Well, yeah, it's really like, yeah. Moscow is like 10 miles from Pullman. So, yeah. Um, which is where I went to college. Oh, but what I was saying is that I met with the teachers and I felt like they, They were focused on education.
They were focused on, you know, how do you become a teacher? And so then, you know, did all that and then you, you know, you take these methods courses of here's how you teach theory. And here's how you teach pedagogy vocal pedagogy. Here's how the voice works. Here's how the vocal tract works. And then you do coral methods.
Like, here's how to pick music. Here's how to study your music so that, you know, how to share it with people who don't know read music, you know, which is quite a shocker when you leave college and you start teaching and you realize kids can't read music. Like they don't know the word forte. You're like, Oh, shocking.
Okay. Let me, yeah. Okay. This is a music stand. And next like, it's kind of like, it was kind of crazy. And, you know, you kind of think they can do all this stuff because you've been doing it. And then you learn. Okay, we start from you, we had to start from a totally different spot than I thought. So that was at first discouraging, but now is amazing.
I love it. I love seeing those, you know, I mean, the, the classic teacher, I love seeing those, like, Oh, that's why the music staff is there like, yeah, it's just like a graph. If it goes up, it gets higher, you know, of course you've been telling him that since, you know, sixth grade, but they figure it out in 10th grade, you know, so it's very exciting.
Um, but yeah, so that was kind of my trajectory and I started teaching part time in 2008 because it was a recession. There were no teaching jobs. No one was retiring. I taught kindergarten, second grade and middle school choir. Then I taught just middle school choir for three more years while I did, you know, private piano, private voice.
And I was an accompanist. I had six jobs. Um, and then I got my full time job, which was middle school in high school choir in a district that's a little larger to the north. But then 2 years after that, a job opened up in my husband's district and my husband is a band director. And so he went to school in this school district.
He went to my high school that I teach at. And so I wanted to be in kind of with him in his group. Um, he's also our music coordinator, which means he's the liaison between the secondary, well, all the music teachers and the district office. And so he's very good at advocating, like, Or money for us and support for us.
And Hey, we need another class here. We need 10, 000 worth of risers, you know? And so I wanted to move to this district because I knew I would have that advocate plus it's my husband, you know? So, so I've been now at this job for 15 years, which if you think about other people, 15 years in the same job, like that's insane, but teaching is one of those weird niches where you just.
You find your spot or most people find their spot. Yeah.
**Morgan:** Yeah. I wanted to ask you about that too because teaching is really not for everybody. Like, no, you said it wasn't for your mom. I've tried it. It's not for me like in small doses, but not as a full time thing. What made you and also like when you're 18, I don't know how it was for you when I was 18.
I thought I knew, but like, what I ended up like, I, You're young, there's a whole world out there, so you thought you knew you wanted to teach and then it turns out that you did. So what was that moment where you like, did you have a class where you're like, yes, like that affirmation? Like, no, this is actually what I want to do.
**Rachel:** Yeah, it took like four years. I mean, you. You just put your nose to the grindstone because it's a huge learning curve. You're 22, your students are 14. So it's not, I mean, it's not a huge difference. You look like a child. Like it's a weird, I mean, I think I was 24 cause I graduated from high school when I was 19 and it took me four and a half years.
And, and so I was slightly older than your, you know, youngest college graduate, but. I looked, I always looked super young. So, you know, you don't, you're not respected that people don't really care whether you sink or swim. Um, so you, you just put your head down and I, I'm just, I'm bullheaded. I'm stubborn.
Like I decided I was going to teach and I just was going to do it. Um, but I did find that in middle school choir, I really, I kind of loved teaching kids, like, Where the line is in both behavior and, um, like behavior as a human and behavior as an ensemble member.
**Morgan:** Yeah.
**Rachel:** And so I teach him here's the line and here's, what's going to happen when you go go over the line.
And I figured out that I was really good at that consistency of what happens when you go over the line and being able to mold and shape and control a group of 50, you know, 13 and 14 year olds, like it makes you feel like a superhero. So when I learned that I could do that, I was like, I'm awesome. Okay.
You know, and so, so middle school actually is kind of still my jam. I, I went to the high school because everybody wants to do it and it's fun and they can do more. Yeah. And I still do love it. But being back at the middle school for one class, I kind of, I adore it. So
**Morgan:** that's amazing. Yeah. Um, so you brought up like behavior.
Um, a lot of people find teenagers, the idea of working with teenagers kind of scary or intimidating. Um, what is it about them that you that you enjoy working with?
**Rachel:** I will say they are impulsive. And so it can be a little scary because they look like fully formed humans and then sometimes they act like a nine year old and it's very surprising.
Um, so like that is kind of freaky, but, um, I think they are just, they're so, once you get them on your team, they will do anything for you. Like, my students, um, I had a medication I was taking and I couldn't drive. Um, and I was like, hey, can someone drive me to, it was concert day and I was like, can someone drive me to the middle school to pick up the amp that I forgot and back to the high school and then back to my house.
And the kids were like, there were like four of them. They're like, I will do it. You know, like they'll do anything for you because they're on your team. And so then you get to build that team with these highly idealistic, super capable, really fun humans. I kind of like their little schtick too. Like I like their funny little words.
Okay, these ones are three years old, but they have this word called, this one's actually five years old, called drippy. And it means your outfit is cute. And so they'll say, do I look drippy? And I like to learn the words and then use them wrong. And then the kids are like, Oh, well, stop. There was one for a while that was called bussin.
I'd be like, guys, guys, is this bussing? Does it slap? You know, like, I kind of love their little, like, silly vernacular and their funny little tic I don't not on tic tac, tic talk. I call it tic tac, you know, because I don't I'm not even on it. But I kind of just, I love learning their little things and I love it when they share music with me and I like the music that they're listening to.
Half the time it's 80s, which is hilarious. Um, and I love, I just love their developing this, you know, like they definitely don't have that full frontal lobe, but I love watching it kind of grow, like from this, like kind of almost lizard brain to this, like, Okay. I can make decisions better now. And I learned that I'm stubborn.
And so I'm going to like, try to temper that. And I learned that, you know, in a partner, my love language is physical touch and my partner's is not. And so we broke up, like we have all these conversations and I love it. It's so fun. Or I'm gay and my parents don't know, how do I tell them? You know, like, these are all conversations that I have had.
And so I love being that safe adult in their life. Yeah.
**Morgan:** Well, yeah, that point is perfect here because like I was thinking that there's a lot of insecurities that come up still for me in music, I had a um, an instance this summer where I Was I'm a I'm still a high soprano and I was there was a high d And I was the only one on it And you mean above high c like the next that really big one.
Yeah. Yeah. Oh, yeah, that would be that would be it's really high and I like I had I even had a solo in the same concert and I was like I don't even care about that solo that high d is like it was my focus And we had a recording session and two concerts and I only got it right on one concert and I got it wrong.
And it's like my summer. So, and I'm, you know, an adult who's been singing for so long and I have like so many tools to work through these things and it's still like hits me. So in music generally, there's insecurities that come up. And then being a teenager, I like, there's so much more. So how do you approach that with your, I mean, that sounds so intense to like combine that feeling with music and then also being all of the hormones of being a teenager.
**Rachel:** Yeah. I mean, it took a long time for me to figure this out, but, um, it's really about seeing people. So when I first meet a kid, I just, I just really. focus on, okay, what is important to this child? What is, how is this child in the world? How can I describe them to themselves? Like I might say to a kid, Hey, I, I've noticed, you know, that you don't like to speak up and I'm very okay with that, but I want you to know that this is a comfortable space, you know?
And then they go, Oh, I'm seen. And so that's one technique is to really see people and, Show them that you see them. Um, another is to, um, well, first you as the teacher have to be vulnerable. So my kids know a lot about me. They're very present in my life. They love it. When I tell silly home stories, you know, that my kid has been great fodder for that.
Um, but before that, when I didn't have a kid, it was pets, you know, and so I try to. Try to be a human, you know, and, um, that's very hopeful. It is like, I'm definitely like, out there with them. Like, this health thing I was telling you about where I couldn't drive like. I had to take some time off work and like, there was no hiding it.
Like I was just like, I'm going through a thing and the kids were like, and I was like, it's not going to kill me, you know, but like everybody knows, knows it and all their parents know it because I'm like a public figure, you know? And so that, that is hard and awesome. You know, um, so it's it's the 1st 1 is seeing people.
The 2nd is the vulnerability with yourself being vulnerable. So I sing for them all the time, obviously. And then the 3rd is, um, I try to name those insecurities, like. If it's time to try out for a solo, I'll say, Hey, we're going to do this a lot of times because your first time your body might betray you a little bit.
And then we'll talk about that fight or flight response and what might be happening with the heart rate and the breath and the, maybe the knees or the other, you know, parts of our bodies. And then kids will speak up and say, Oh, my teeth start to chatter or whatever. Like, and then other people will say, Well, I can't all of a sudden I can't breathe.
It sounds so much better in my room. You know, like we had this long conversation and then all of a sudden the wall comes down, like, Oh, I'm not the only person that has fear and, and has trouble singing a solo and if I wipe out. Nothing bad will happen to me and everyone will understand that feeling.
Okay, then I can do it, you know, and so we just. Like, if I have a solo part of a song, or even if I don't, I'll pick a passage that's like the best, most fun thing to sing and I'll have kids sing it by themselves. As many times as they want, they get to take as many runs at it as they want, which then at some point reads some big success moment and they can feel it.
And once you know that, then you can do so much, you know, it's just this long process singing so vulnerable as you know. And so you have to be gentle as a teacher.
**Morgan:** I love that. And I can think of moments when that would have been really helpful in our choir. That wasn't the
**Rachel:** kind of choir we had. We were competitive.
We were intense. You know, I was never a soloist in our choir for a reason. I mean, I'm not actually a soloist. I'm a great reader and I'm a good, I'm a very good second soprano. I'll find you a middle note and I'll sing it, but you know, I'm, I'm no soloist. Um, but yeah, I think I might've gotten better if, if there had been a little more safety in auditioning, you know, but it was sort of like, Can you do it, no?
Okay, moving on.
**Morgan:** Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, so what challenges we've talked about some like major successes you have, what challenges do you have with teaching?
**Rachel:** Well, I mean, apathy is the worst thing ever. Um, so I, I just, it really bothers me if a kid, because I'm an elective, if the kid is there and not doing the job.
Yeah, yeah, I, in the middle school, I actually have a really great system for it where I, um, everybody has to give themselves a score on a 0 on a 1 to 4 every day. And there's criteria for meeting that 4 point mark. And then if they don't, I publicly say, well, you had gum. So that's a 3. Or I publicly say, well, you fell asleep.
So that's it too. And then, and then I public probably say, well, I had to move you. So that's a one, like they have, they're like very specific. The high school is a little harder. Cause you really can't do that to them. Cause they'll freak out and be sad. And you know, like I, in the middle school, I can embarrass a little bit more.
And at the high school, they, they can't handle that. They're just like not at the place. So that one's harder. Um, and so you have to motivate basically. by like, being so magnetic that people want to work for you, you know, and sometimes I get it right. And sometimes I don't like last year, I had two really beautiful singers that for some reason never got on board with my system and didn't come back their sophomore year.
And it was devastating. I was like, I have lost these highly. High powered, talented people. And I, I even asked them, I was like, Hey, is there anything, you know, that I did to make it so you didn't come back? And they, they said, no, but I still feel that, like. Maybe there was, you know, so that piece is very hard when a kid leaves the program.
You definitely take it personally. Or when a kid is in the program and doesn't care about it again, you really take it personally. And that's that's the hardest part of the job in calling parents. That part sucks. Hi, it's Mrs. Landowski from this high school and, you know, Joey, Joey, um, did some things today that were not great and, um, but you know, I want to tell you that sometimes he's a great person and, you know, do you have any strategies for working with Joey?
Like it's just, it makes me so nervous and sometimes they say, actually he's a terror at home. Good luck. And other times, you know, they're like, Oh yeah, this is going on at home and you get the information you need, but it's still even though I'm, even though I'm almost 40, I still kind of feel like, I don't know, like I'm like, You know, uh, like in the principal's office or something, like, you know, I'm on the spot.
**Morgan:** You're calling like a real parent, even though you are a real
**Rachel:** parent. That's how I feel. Yeah, yeah, that's it. Like, I'm not a real parent. And when I wasn't a real parent, that one was, that was very hard. When I was 26, like, but you know, there were so many, there's so many problems that can be solved by calling parents.
And if you don't do it, you're just going to end up with a whole storm. So that part is a bummer.
**Morgan:** Yeah. Oof.
**Rachel:** . Well, you know, I mean, just as we talked about that, that frontal lobe is not developed. So most of the time they're amazing. I know as you're talking,
**Morgan:** I'm like trying to think back and remember like, what was I like in high school?
**Rachel:** Like, I
**Morgan:** don't think
**Rachel:** they ever had
**Morgan:** to call my
**Rachel:** mom.
No, I'm sure they didn't.
/
**Morgan:** Um, let's take some big picture moments here. Cause when I think back of some of the most influential people in the life, in my life, the first people come to mind are my music teachers. Like, um, and how does it feel to be, you know, like you have people who have left your program and are like 15 years, like for 15 years you've been influencing people.
How does it feel to know that you could be shaping someone's, like you are, not could be, you are shaping someone's entire life? Like, I still feel influenced by our high school choir teacher and just some of the things they taught me. My, my piano teacher, like, how does that feel? I must feel amazing or weird.
I don't know. Tell me.
**Rachel:** It's two things. It does feel amazing. And sometimes you do get like these beautiful thank yous. Like I had a, um, student who was the ASB president who wrote me, he just, you know, graduated last year and he wrote me a two page letter. All about all the things he felt that I had done for him included many song titles, like in the letter that it's hard to describe, but it's like, we know he's saying obvious, thank you for the music.
And he, he said, and I really want to thank you for the music. And there was bridge over troubled water was in there and some other ones. And he also sent me 80. So I could go out to dinner with my husband, kids, 19, by the way, but, you know, like, you feel moments like that. You just feel. You feel invincible.
You feel that you could do anything. Um, in other moments, though, when you don't do so well, you feel very responsible. You feel that you have failed a child in some way. And it's almost like being a parent to 150 children. And that can be very heavy. You know, so so, like, if a kid leaves the program, or if they, um, I don't know if they have a hard time when they graduate, you feel sort of responsible for it.
That maybe, you know, there's something you could have done and something you could have told them. I had 1 kid who. Um, ended up, you know, just kind of at the wrong college. And so she, Oh no, she ended up in a sorority. That was just horrifying. And she came back and told me about it. And I was, you know, it was just this terrible experience for her.
And I, I felt like, man, I was in a sorority and I hated it. Why didn't I tell you that, you know, like don't get in a sorority. They're not the same as they were when our moms were in them, you know? And so. No shade to any sorority people. Some people I think can find lovely places, but for me, it wasn't a good experience.
And I was bummed that I didn't share that with her because it was a terrible experience for her to, you know, and that's a small example of ways that you feel responsible for them when they leave, you know, yeah. That's a lot to take on, Rachel. I know. And you know, you're sort of, I'm sort of a perfectionist and I'm sort of a person that just like, you know, I really, I, I take my work very seriously.
And so I do take on a lot and my kids will tell you, I am a terror on concert day, I am a different person and I will say to them, Hey, you, you're about to poke the bear and I just, none of us want to see that.
Yeah,
**Morgan:** I feel like you have to be that a little bit. Our high school director was definitely a little bit. Well, I
**Rachel:** mean, and as the leader of the group, you are very, like all, all of it's on the line, you know, and the people that are pulling the sled. Are a little bit unreliable because they're teenagers. So that can be very scary.
And sometimes they show up and they pull the sled and they're great, you know, performers and other times they don't. And then you're like, huh, was that them or me? You know, probably a combination. Um, but yeah, it's, uh, there's, there's tons of highs and lows for sure, which I think is different from some other people's jobs.
And in some ways, I love it. And in some ways, still 15 years in, I think. Uh, I wonder if they'd like me to be a bank teller, you know, anything else, even though I'm sure nothing else would be as fulfilling as this is. I, I do still sometimes think like, Oh boy, is this a tough road? Yeah.
, I don't have very many kids go on to major in music because it is, it's a niche and like, unless you wanna teach, it's, yeah, not a great idea.
Especially in our current economy, you know? And I feel like when we were kids it was a little more like, yeah, you wanna go get a music degree, get one, you know? But now kids are kind of. You know, they're needing to find a path because of how millennials, we had so much trouble getting jobs and, you know, so I think Gen X has learned like, okay, we need to be employable.
And so just a lot of kids don't choose music because their parents are like, oh, no, you can't choose that. So then they'll be doing engineering. I was just talking to an alumnus. Alumni alumnus today who goes to, um, UW super duper brilliant kid. Um, she's doing engineering and, you know, she was telling me about that, but she was like, it's super hard.
And there isn't time for choir. And, you know, I just said, well, if you can pop in for a quarter, you know, she was like, I miss it so much. She was like, I miss you so much. And she was like, I feel like my fun time. Which was choir went away. And so she was, you know, she's very happy other than she misses that piece.
But I was excited because I was telling her about Jeffrey Boers, who's at UW and he is 1 of my mentors in my. Teaching career and I've done several institutes with him, and he is just so empathic and loving and that's how I teach. So I feel like, you know, if she were able to pop in with him, she'd feel right at home.
Yeah. She'd be so happy. Yeah. I did get to FaceTime with her and, um, just double check on her. Cause she's kind of my COVID babies.
Like the kids that I had. in 2020 and they graduated in 2024. They're sort of like my like trauma babies because
**Morgan:** yeah, it
**Rachel:** was choir online and it was horrific and I didn't get to meet them until they were sophomores. Well, they were like, At the end of their freshman year. And then we all had to come out of it.
We had to figure out how to normal, you know, and how, cause singing was so, um, restricted. So for a long time, we were six feet apart. We were masked and this was this group, you know? And so when they left, I felt like we just had a super duper special connection. And so I actually grieved it like all summer, basically.
And then some of them came back to the concert last night. And saying a piece that they had sung that we were redoing. And it was, it was impromptu. Like they just jumped on stage and I was like, you guys come on stage. And one of the kids, he was like a veterinary assistant. She was like, I'm wearing scrubs.
And I was like, no, it was so special. Like they're just such a special group. And Oh, and the current kids were like, you know, they were so excited. And so we just, you know, we had. We haven't had so many special moments together, and I get to have them for four years, and, um, I did start after COVID teaching at the middle school, so technically if that keeps up, which it probably won't because the program is growing, I could have a kid from sixth grade through twelfth grade, which is forever.
**Morgan:** Yeah, that's like all of their developmental, like emotionally developmental. Yeah.
**Rachel:** And you know, you don't, you're not as close with every kid, but I definitely have my kids that kind of become family and it's very special. Yeah.
**Morgan:** I asked Rachel to come on my podcast after seeing a particular video she made on social media, that I am obsessed with. The video was something like things I wish my students knew I was thinking about them during their auditions. In the video, she pulls out her teacher notebook And read some of her notes. Here's a few of them. The high notes, so pure and clean. Relax. You are ridiculously lovely. There's a subtle shortness and musicality that is really pleasing. Where have you been taking lessons? I love this so much because I feel like so often we believe people are judging us or thinking the worst of us, especially in high pressure situations, like an audition. But I think we have it backward. And people are more often than not thinking positive, wonderful things about us. If you're enjoying this conversation, please take a moment to like site Geist, radio on Facebook or Instagram. Or if you're really loving it, you can sign up for my newsletter on my website@zeitgeistsacademy.com slash radio. I send out weekly content about cool things I learned from my guests. Now let's get back to Rachel.
/ we talked about, insecurities and you talked about how you share your vulnerabilities.
Um, there's a lot of like trust kind of built in with that. Like you have, if you're gonna share, if you're gonna create an environment where they're sharing insecurities, they have to trust that you're gonna hold that. And then also. For you to share, you know, so much about your life, you kind of have to, there's like a level of trust that they're not going to abuse that somehow.
So, like, can you talk about trust a little bit? Cause I think that is, it sounds like that is kind of the basis of the relationship that you have, um, that you at least seek to build with your students.
**Rachel:** I think, um, I do think that I am different than some other colleagues who, Do do it differently, you know, they keep the professional lines a little tighter and, um, maybe relate with more humor and less personal stories or maybe relate, um, just in a different way.
So, I think I might be different in in that, um, the trust piece. I guess, you know, it goes back to what I said early in the conversation about why I like teenagers is that once they trust you, they will do anything for you. They will babysit your child tonight. Um, my son is at karate with 1 of my students, because
you know, I wanted to do this and my husband is at marching band and so I, I called my student or I texted her, which some people don't even give out their phone number, but everybody's got mine, you know, and, you know, like she was like, I am so there and excited to do it, you know? So I think that is, um, the trust that we've built together, like myself and, and those students and it, Oh, and they watch my dogs if I leave, you know, like, it is nice to have that community of teenagers and I like giving them my money, like, you know, cause I know they need money.
And so I might as well pay a person that I love and care for. And rather than like. You know, somebody I don't know. Um, and so I, I think there are other teachers that might think that that blurs a line and I think it does. Um, but I have my husband and I have both made the choice to blur the line and really be part of the community and really be part of the village for our kids.
Um, and as we just talked about, it can be very heavy, but mostly it's very awesome. Yeah.
**Morgan:** Well, and I think like music. Blurs that line anyway, because some of your most emotional moments are making me some of my most emotional
**Rachel:** moments are making music. So I mean, last night I was, I was conducting, and I did not know that those alumni were going to show up.
And I did not know that I was going to remember to call them on stage and that they were going to come and sing with us. And in the, it was a medley so fast song. Well, I'll just tell you about. So it was, here comes the sun and then in my life and then can't buy me love. Um, and when we were singing in my life by the Beatles, I mean, first off, I love the Beatles and second off, I'm just looking at these beautiful people and I just start crying and I just smiled to the kids, like, They were like, you know, they were like, they were totally fine with it.
I'm crying. And luckily the last song, like had a big, nice kind of dance group. So then I, I came out of it. So I didn't mess anything up conducting wise, wise, but you know, we just, we had a moment. There were 150 teenagers staring at me crying and, and I just, I owned it. That's amazing.
**Morgan:** Um, since you mentioned some songs, let's shift gears to something maybe a little lighter.
Um, how do you choose rep? I mean, I know that you took an entire class on that. Can you give me the, like, 30 second version of, like, how do you know what's gonna fit, uh, to your concert, fit your kids?
**Rachel:** I'm sorry that it's not a 30 second version, but, uh, first off you, you mentioned in your first questions about that, like, how do you keep up with trends?
Um, and so, yeah, the new trend is Jake Runestad, everyone's singing him and, um, my buddy, uh, I have a dear friend who teaches at the school. Actually, she teaches at my first school, um, at my first high school, she took over. My job when I left and she is a total nerd and she would totally tell you this. And so she just listens to coral music all the time.
And so then I'll say, okay, I have this kind of group, like, intermediate, strong baritones, you know, or whatever. Like, I'll give her some kind of. Um, specification and she'll say, try this, this and this, you know, and so her big gal that she loves is Elaine Hagenberg, who is incredible. Like, uh, my friend has sung most of her music.
Um, she's a fairly, you know, she's an R. H. composer. And plus she's a gal, which we both love, you know. Um, and I sang one piece, we sang one piece of hers last year. And of course we're now going to do more, but, but my buddy and I like, she was like, Hey, I'm doing this and this and this for so an ensemble where, you know, our groups compete.
She was like, so just make sure you don't sing those. And I was like, Oh yeah, good call. Um, you know, so I, we share collegially. I think that's a big thing is that rep piece, because you really, it's a ton of work to keep up on it. Yeah. Um, and then like you do. We do a lot of conference read a conference sessions.
When you go for professional development, we do a lot of what we call reading sessions where people just come up, you know, like, they run a session with their 10 favorite pieces and they'll give you, like, their little elevator pitch of why they liked it. And then you'll read through it. Um, and then you'll mark it, you know, and, and think, okay, well, this would work for a group that didn't have very strong outdoors or whatever it was, or for a group that had really strong outdoors and whatever, like, because you're tailoring to the humans that are in the room.
Right. Um, and I will say that some people pick out their whole concert season before the kids walk in, I pick out. 30, 40 pieces that are just on a list and I just start pulling them and handing them out. And, um, cause I just don't know what's going to work until I know it's going to work.
**Morgan:** Yeah. Yeah. You don't know your singers.
**Rachel:** Yeah. You have to. And I do know them. Like some of them are returners, but in different amalgamations, they're different. You know, and the seniors have graduated and the juniors become seniors and the soft and the sophomores become juniors like it changes the whole dynamic and so that's going to change how they sing.
Yeah, like this year's group has these super bright. They're just naturally super bright, which I love bright sound, but I'm like, folks, tall vowels, tall vowels, space, like, you know, cause that's just their sound. And of course, like they have to have space in tall vowels. And so I'm just like hammering on them every day.
Yeah. Um, but that's this group, you know, and there, I've had other groups that sang like this. And then I have to be like, okay, bring it forward because you're not in tune, you know, and that's, you know, you have to kind of tailor. Yeah.
**Morgan:** Not to mention, I'm sure guys voices are dropping all like right and left.
So like, Oh, the boy piece. The year my tenor or alto maybe and then
**Rachel:** the nice deal about that is I have a friend who's actually the organist at my church and who's, he's a beautiful singer he's, I think his degree is from, , Uh, Westminster Choir College. Wow. Um, so the big, the big leagues, um, and, and I have also, I'm very, very fortunate that I have a booster group, um, that has a little money.
And so if a kid, especially the young men, but I do it with the, with the treble singers as well, but the tenor bass singers, if I'm, if I'm switching them voice parts, like I have a, a junior this year who switched from singing bass, all eighth, ninth, and 10th. Grade and he's singing tenor this year. I was like, okay, you need to go see my guy because yes, your voice wants to be tenor, but you need to know how to be tenor.
Um, and so he's going to go take, you know, we pay for four lessons and that kid goes and come back with all. And sometimes then their parents. You know, throw in on it and other times, you know, that's not financially feasible, but at least they get those 4 lessons where they can pick up a ton of stuff that they then bring back to the group.
And sometimes they'll even be in class and they'll be like, oh, hey, Dan says, try this, you know, or Bri, who's kind of my trouble. Singer voice teacher says, let's try this. And I'll be like, okay, we're going to do that. Cause that gives me kind of this team that create, you know, helps us create great sound.
That's so cool. Rachel. It's very cool. Yeah. Yeah. The booster group runs it. I will say it's like a total, um, It's like really hard. We run the concessions at the home football games. And so you have to get 10 volunteers for those Friday nights. Well, actually, no, you have to get like 15 volunteers, which getting people to volunteer these days is difficult.
You have to buy all the items, price, all the items, make all the hot dogs, like inventory, everything. And you know, and my buddy and I, who he's the, uh, band and orchestra teacher at my school, like we are, it kicks our butts in the fall because we're like, okay, do we need Pepsi? Okay. How many cases of water do we need?
Okay. Well, do you think we need to raise our prices? I think we should sign up for a square so that we can take a digital payment. Like it's this whole other, like, and neither of us are numbers people. We're both musicians. I look at a spreadsheet and it just starts to swim, you know? So I'm not, it's not really my wheelhouse.
Um, but you know, then we have all this money that we can use to just pump up what we're doing, which is awesome. That is so cool. And we don't have to send kids out to sell grapefruit on the street, you know, win win. I'm like this kid, this. This keeps your child off the street, peddling fruit, just so you know.
And they're like, okay,
**Morgan:** I'll volunteer. Gosh, I forgot about that. We totally peddled those weird lists of things to go to tour. Weird lists and you'd go and they have their numbers. And we would peddle with
**Rachel:** my mom's youth choir. We peddled poinsettias. Um, and so like my mom would go to Symphony Crown and she'd say, okay, we're selling poinsettias and of course all of her friends would have to sign up for a poinsettia so that, you know, I could have money to go to Italy or whatever.
Yeah, it was great. Did you go on tour? Yeah, we go to Disneyland. So I don't do. Anything but Disneyland because Disneyland is the best you don't run into any behavior problems because they're in Disneyland. You don't lose anybody because they're in Disneyland. And there's we stop at a college where we get a session with the college conductor.
So that's cool. And then on your 1st day in Disneyland, you perform. And then in the 2nd day, you get to do what's called a studio session. So you go backstage and you get to record like a song from a movie. And then you get to hear it back with the movie. Um, on the screen, and they, you know, they, uh, they have a sound engineer and so they kind of clean it up.
And 1 time we sang this, I don't you might not even know this reference, but 1 time we did this. So I'm from high school musical and like, there were two kids who totally nailed the solos and then we got to hear their voices like, like Gabby and Troy, and this is such a millennial thing. So I don't know if you know, high school musical, but like, it's a silly, everyone
**Morgan:** else knows it.
I'm, I'm hopeless. I love that. Everyone else knows it. No, I love that.
**Rachel:** I love that. You. You, your counterculture enough that you don't know high school musical. That makes me happy because I'm embarrassed that I know it.
**Morgan:** I feel like I should know it. I know, I
**Rachel:** don't, I'm not recommending it to you. I'm just telling you, it was really funny when we did it in Disneyland.
But yeah, so we go every, uh, we were, we were going every four years, but I'm now going to go every three because sometimes a freshman, if that's their chance to go, they're not quite ready to like, Jump on a plane with their peers. Um, and so then they don't get a chance to go. And so then if they don't go there freshman year, they'll have a chance to go their senior year.
And if they loved it, their freshman year, they can go their senior year. Um, and in the past, my husband and I have done it together. We both bring our groups. So that's really fun. And then our groups kind of hang out and, uh, but I think, you know, with our son being seven, um, his grandparents took him for the first two trips, but after the second trip, they're like.
We're too old and Disneyland is too big and I was like, I get it, I get it. So we may rotate this next session. So we'll see. Yeah.
**Morgan:** Yeah. So no buses where you like drive across Washington for like, what is it like 16 hours on the way to San Francisco singing the literally the entire way?
**Rachel:** No, mama does not sleep in a gym.
Mama does not travel on a bus. Mama goes on a plane. Yeah. I mean you, there are people that do it. I just, I won't.
**Morgan:** You got posh. Look at you.
**Rachel:** I know I got fancy. I just can't, I can't do it. I need my sleep. I can't sleep in a gym and I am car sick and I can't go on a bus. So we just take a plane.
**Morgan:** Yeah, oh, that's awesome.
Um, so I have, I have a final question. We'll end with, but before I get to that one, what do you wish people like more people knew about high school choir programs? Now's your chance to like, say whatever
**Rachel:** I wish they knew we were there. I think people don't realize like every, every high school has a choir.
I also wish that people understood that athletes can also be singers. And in fact, like when I get an athlete, like I've got a football player and a soccer player right now, and, um, volleyball and tennis, um, cross country. When I get an athlete, they're always the stars. Because they understand how to be on a team.
They understand work ethic. They, oh, and a wrestler, although during wrestling season, he gets a little lethargic, which bums me out because he's not eating. So that's crazy. Um, but yeah, I mean, I just love that connection between athletes. Athletics and music, and I wish that more kids felt comfortable, like, doing both.
Um, so, like, if they have a game and they can't make the concert or they're going to be late, I'm like, okay, well, come on. If you, if you get here, you can sing in your, you know, softball uniform. And last year they did. And it was so much fun. So great. Like, I was so excited. They made it. And, um, yeah, so the 2 things that we're here and that, you know, we're a place for all children, like, you know, your rainbow children, your transgender children, your.
Um, your athletes, your superstars, we, we are a place where all children can be loved, supported and part of a community.
**Morgan:** Yeah, I love that. All right, I've got my last question for you. Okay, which is I ask every guest this at the end of the episode. ? Do you know what Zeitgeist means?
**Rachel:** Um, it's a German word that means, no, I do not know. It means
**Morgan:** spirit of the times. I like geist like poltergeist and then zeit means time, time ghost. Anyway, zeitgeist is like a word that refers to the cultural like feel of something. Um, people like, like picture what it was like being alive, um, like in the 90s, like around Y2K versus what it was like being alive here.
That's kind of a broad cultural level, but I mean, it just means spirit of the time. I like to use it for like more microculture, like as well, like, This like, like the environment of being in your choir room. You're the zeitgeist of your choir room is going to be different from the zeitgeist of the sports stadium, right?
They're still both very valid. They're still awesome, but they're just different.
**Rachel:** Yeah.
**Morgan:** So, um, in the case, this is a musical podcast. So in, in the context of music, there's a moment I call a zeitgeist moment. Where, you just plug in, right?
And you feel part of something bigger than yourself and you, you're suddenly like connected to that. Fill in the blank, whether you're like listening to opera or like it could be literally anything. So I'll ask you what was either a recent or particularly memorable Zeitgeist moment for you. And while you're thinking, I'll share one.
Um,, I remember when we went, we were in ambiance and we went to, um, Idaho. ACDA. Mm-Hmm. , do you know what I'm gonna tell what I'm gonna say? ? No, I just know it went to Acda. Tell me. Yeah, it went to Acda. Um, and we had this very particular, um, I'm pretty sure we were, um, doing Los Marias. Do you remember that one?
Now? How can I forget? We worked so hard on that piece and it kept falling apart, and it kept falling apart. , . But then one of our performances, I don't know. We like, we kind of had a moment. As a group together and it just clicked and it just like connect. It was like, so good. It was so good. And the camaraderie that I felt with that group in that moment, um, while we were on stage and we were just like.
bringing down the house. It was so good. It was so good. Um, but it was because we we'd had, I think the night before we'd had like a really vulnerable, like circle time session, just like in somebody's room or something. Like it was nice. It was
**Rachel:** really just like sharing. Oh, you are bringing back some memories, buddy.
Oh my gosh. Yeah. Circle time. That was pivotal for me as a, yeah. Anytime
**Morgan:** it was not like if the teacher was gone or if, um, He would give
**Rachel:** us time right after the concert where we
**Morgan:** could sit together again. Yeah, we would sit in a circle and we would, we'd just Um, and so as we were talking about this episode in advance, I was thinking about like trust and like these things.
And I was like, that, that to me was so pivotal was that, that relationship, I absolutely a thousand percent know that the relationships that we developed in circle time in like the traveling. Cause also like you're on the, we took the bus, San
**Rachel:** Francisco too.
**Morgan:** I'm pretty sure we did, didn't we? Oh, I don't remember that part.
It was a plane. I don't know. I remember lots of buses. I think we went on more tours. I think we went on two tours. Anyway, I just remember that that camaraderie, um, has such an impact on how you perform as an ensemble. And I really do believe that the closer that you are with the people and the more that you trust the people that you're singing with, uh, the more, the better.
better you perform. And that moment with Las Amarillas at ACDA was a moment for me where I just like I felt so part of something bigger than myself. Yes, many times since then, but that was a particular moment and you know, I love
**Rachel:** that you brought that back to me because I remember That is the reason I wanted to become a choir teacher because of that experience.
Yeah. I don't know if I will ever take my group to a CDA because it is scary as all get out. 'cause people can be really judgmental. Um, but I'm really glad that I got to go as a singer. Yeah. And I remember our teacher being pretty dang scared. Like he worked us that year.
**Morgan:** He worked us really hard. Yeah.
And that was a hard piece. Like,
**Rachel:** yeah, and I remember we also did Negrasum, you know? Oh yeah, yeah, yeah. Negrasum se formosa. It was hard. Yeah. And then we also did This Little Babe, which remains one of my faves. This little
**Morgan:** babe so beautiful. I've done that one several times since.
**Rachel:** Yeah, the, I'm like,
**Morgan:** I don't even need the music.
I'm like, yeah, I got this .
**Rachel:** Yeah. Yeah. And I've done it too with my kids and they're always like, what is happening here? And I'm like, just, just go with it. It's gonna be great . You know? So the question is, what is my recent Zeitgeist moment?
**Morgan:** Yeah, either a recent or a memorable one, yeah.
**Rachel:** Okay, so, um, it was actually last night. So I, I told you already that I graduated all these wonderful humans.
Yeah. And there were 12 of them, um, who graduated last year. And so, They were in my chamber group. There were 12 that were in my chamber group. So that meant that four remained and not a single, hold on.
**Morgan:** I just got the gravity of what you just said there. Yeah.
**Rachel:** So the chamber group is 16 voices. They meet after school and they are tasked with singing all styles.
So we do jazz. Then we do classical, then we do jazz again, and then we do pop and that's our 4 quarters and they're, you know, and they meet after school and they are tasked with practicing their little faces off and that extra hour, you know, inquire and making the time for that. They do get an extra credit for it.
They also spend 3 Saturdays in. Late in late November and December caroling. Um, and then sometimes I make them go in the evenings too. And, you know, I'm like, well, we're going to the nursing home. Okay. The homework's not done, but I'll be there, you know, and. So, anyway, the Zeitgeist was that I had these 12, I actually ended up with 17 because 1 kid, I keep it, I keep it to 16 because that's as many as you can send to solo an ensemble, which is our competition.
But 1 of the kids is 7th day Adventist, and she won't be able to sing the Saturday concert or the Saturday. Yeah. So I can take 16, although probably some of them will go down because it's in February. So they'll get the flu and not be able to say. But anyway, the point of the story is. There are 13 new people who are carrying the weight.
Of that group from last year, they rocked like, they, they killed it at graduation. Everybody loved it. They sang a piece. Um, they sang, uh, oh, gravity cerebral is this gravity mixed with rocket man and it was this like, and they just, and it was hard. And there were lots of solos and then the choir would be under the solo and the timing was tricky and they just nailed it in a huge stadium and it was crazy.
So I know that my 13 new singers are, they're stressing about pulling those shoes. And some of them are sophomores, so they're like barely ready. Yeah. Um, But the juniors, and then I have 1 new senior, is it to 2 new seniors? They've been practicing their little faces off. Like, we have this jazz piece. It was pretty hard.
I picked a level 2, but I was telling the kids. I don't feel like this was level 2. like, it's out of 4 and it to me. It seemed like 3. 5, um, but. But they had a recording and so they, I was just like, you got to practice. You got to listen to that recording. And one day I finally heard that they had been doing it.
And then it started to sound great. And so last night I knew they were very nervous because there's only 16 of them. We were singing in the gym. It's a huge crowd. It's their first time out. And we were waiting in the hallway to go on while the jazz band was playing. And they all started doing the Macarena.
And I was like, Okay. They're going to be just fine. Now they have, you know, cause they all day, they had been super tight and really nervous and really extra loud. Like singers, when they're nervous, just get loud, you know? And, um, cause they're all external processors. And so I was like, Oh my gosh, are they going to blow this?
Like that would be terrible. Um, but they, they did their little Macarena and then they went on and nailed it. And it was, it was so great.
**Morgan:** That's awesome. And I was
**Rachel:** so happy for
**Morgan:** her. Super cool. Amazing. Well, Rachel, thank you so much for being on my podcast. This was so much fun.
**Rachel:** I really enjoyed it and I appreciate you making the time and spending the time to do it. It's really lovely.
**Morgan:** Thanks for tuning into this episode of zeitgeists radio. Please make sure to follow the podcast on your podcast app. I'm also on Facebook and Instagram at zeitgeists academy. And you can always email me at info at academy.com. I love hearing from you. Music for this episode was created by Ian Boswell.
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